Sundance Diagnostics, a genetic test pre-suicide

Sundance Diagnostics<- Click on the picture to go to the Sundance website.

.

Did you know that there could soon be a test which will enable doctors to establish whether a person will react badly to antidepressants? An American company, Sundance Diagnostics, is in the early stages of developing a Genetic test for Prescription Drug Side Effects. This test, if successful, will establish whether a person is at risk of Suicide and Violence before (not after) being prescribed an antidepressant.

This from their website:

“Sundance Diagnostics is working to develop the world’s first genetic safety tests to predict a patient’s risk of antidepressant-induced suicidal thinking or behavior. There is a strong need to make pharmaceutical drugs safer for patients—especially when those drugs have serious side effects and are being sold to millions of people. Sundance is using the most advanced genetic technologies to develop its safety tests to predict a patient’s risk. The goal is to save lives, improve treatment, increase patient confidence in treatment, and reduce the cost of treatment.”

CEO Kim Bechthold, referring to the fact that over 90% of school shooters were on psychiatric drugs, stated “The importance of genetic tests to curb the risk of suicide and risk of acts of violence has been heightened as governments and communities search for effective ways to halt tragic mass shootings.”

Maria has written a great article on the MIA website about this. Unbelievably, she mentioned that she was offered a blood test to assess any risk for her cat pre-operation but not a test for her 17 year-old son Toran who died by a Fluoxetine/Prozac induced suicide. I could argue forever that a ‘drug-induced suicide’ is not suicide but that’s for another day. In her article Maria debated whether this test would in fact give the impression that antidepressants actually work for some people and she didn’t want to give people false hope. She answers that one perfectly, as usual. My thoughts on that one slightly differ with others. If you or anyone else is on an antidepressant and feel that the drug is helping, whether it’s the placebo/smartie effect or not, why fix what’s not broken? It’s when the drugs don’t work and cause awful adverse-effects such as suicide and homicide, that I do have a big problem. Informed consent, which you don’t get in Ireland, is my problem. If a person is pre-warned of the possible adverse-effects as recommended by the Irish Human Rights Commission, at least that person will have some chance of survival. In Ireland, people do not get that chance. Considering that this test is being developed in America at huge expense and, if successful, will be used worldwide, what will Ireland’s excuse be? That there is no point ordering a test which will solve a problem that doesn’t exist?

What surprised me most was the comments under Maria’s article, where some people opined that this test might actually make things worse. I hadn’t actually thought about that, and while there are some valid and understandably differing opinions, if this test is successful, in my opinion the pros will definitely outweigh the cons. Or in psychiatric language, in this case (unlike with antidepressants), the benefits will definitely outweigh the risks!

Maria’s Article.

Sundance Press Release 3-11-13 A (3)

I, being a natural cynic, had a few questions which I needed to be clarified. I put them to Kim and her scientific advisor, Peter Tolias, Ph.D,…

.

I’ve been enquiring about suicide tests and read a lot about the STAR*D trial. What happened to the hints of a Pharmacogenetic marker from the STAR*D study that you initially referred to?

Dear Leonie,

This is Peter: The STAR*D study itself was the largest and most comprehensive study ever performed that studied drug-induced suicide risk, however, the technology that was available to be used at the time to examine markers only allowed them to study a small fraction of the human genome.  In spite of this, several new markers were identified that could ultimately be useful as a component of a broader genetic test.  These STAR*D markers, plus additional markers we hope to be discovered by Sundance, need to be confirmed in an independent study before a test is ready for the clinic.  Sundance intends to initiate a clinical trial for confirmation just as soon as the sequencing study is completed.

Your press release mentioned Whole Genome Screening (WGS) being an advance on Genome Wide Association Screening (GWAS). Will WGS really tell more than GWAS would?

This is Peter; Absolutely, because whole genome sequencing means identifying the complete sequence of a patient’s genome rather than a fraction of a percent identified by GWAS.  (10 million compared to 3 billion base pairs in the haploid genome (or 6 billion nucleotides), roughly 300 times the information)

How soon do you intend to have this genetic testing ready for distribution, months, years, decades?

Leonie, this is Kim again.  The sequencing portion of our work and the confirmatory study can take from 12 months to 18 months.  Sometimes a study actually has to be redone, resulting in more time.   If the sequencing is successful,  and if all else goes well, we could have a laboratory-developed test for physicians in 18 months in the U.S.  If we seek FDA approval, it will require at least another year.  FDA approval is not required in the United States however. For approval in Ireland, we will submit our initial confirmatory study results.  If the authorities require the type of studies that are required for FDA approval, it will take additional time.


42 thoughts on “Sundance Diagnostics, a genetic test pre-suicide

  1. Dear Genomic Researchers;

    Bull. Pure and Simple, money grubbing Bull.

    http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/02/five-decades-of-gene-finding-failures-in-psychiatry/

    Nothing replicable has ever been found, nor Will anything replicable ever be found.

    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.1001326

    You’re pulling the public’s leg while picking the public’s pocket.

    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020212

    http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/GeneWatch/GeneWatchPage.aspx?pageId=384

    And you’re perfectly comfortable with peddling ‘Hope’, . . . , for Years worth of free ride, . .

    “The sequencing portion of our work and the confirmatory study can take from 12 months to 18 months. Sometimes a study actually has to be redone, resulting in more time. If the sequencing is successful, and if all else goes well, we could have a laboratory-developed test for physicians in 18 months in the U.S. If we seek FDA approval, it will require at least another year. FDA approval is not required in the United States however. For approval in Ireland, we will submit our initial confirmatory study results. If the authorities require the type of studies that are required for FDA approval, it will take additional time.”

    IF, there were Anything to behavioral genetics, Would, or more importantly, Should, Anyone have Any business Knowing who carries those defective genes?

    NO, No Way, and Hell No, a Thousand Times NO, after witnessing the cost cutting those phony Genes occasioned in another failed Socialist Nation 80 years ago: 11 Million murdered in the camps.

    Genetics Research is Fraud, and with centuries of intentionally obscurant smoke blown about it already, and NO replicable results at all, can anyone believe that IF the genes in question are ever conclusively identified, we will somehow miraculously Fix them?

    Like

    1. Hi D,
      Japers, don’t hold back there whatever you do! Glad to see you back in your old form.
      No, if they ever do find some sort of proof for what they need, I sure hope they won’t be trying to fix anyone. I’m not sure that it wouldn’t be taken further if something was found, but if that’s possible, I’m sure it will happen sooner or later.
      I do understand where you’re coming from though and always respect your opinion. I really hope this crowd are not just peddling hope and that this test will happen, not to fix people, but to stop people from killing themselves and others on drugs that are not suited to them.
      Leonie

      Like

      1. Leonie, please don’t mistake the direction of my ire as landing in the lap of anyone whose judgment isn’t as firmly made as my own on the subject.

        My Ire is focused Wholly and Exclusively upon the Liars and Mooches billing everyone else to foist their Eugenic Fraud upon us again.

        The Holocaust and WWII were the Direct Result of this Godless, Garbage Research, and we don’t want to travel that road again.

        The drugs, when they don’t result in death immediately, are nothing but a time release version of the same philosophy, same end game.

        http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/910/9/

        That, is Psychiatry’s doing. It’s Their Albatross. They shot it, and they can damn well Wear it.

        http://www.toolan.com/hitler/index.html#contents

        I’ve re-posted that whole book with hyper links to some of the players in it.

        http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/Men%20Behind%20Hitler

        Like

  2. I don’t see this as being about behavioural genetics at all. My son’s DNA test showed in black and white how the SSRI he was prescribed built quickly to toxic levels in his brain because of his mismatched allelles at CYP450. He did not metabolise the drug as the majority of people do and the effect was catastrophic. His genes did not make him kill himself, the drug did. His genes meant he should never have been exposed to the drug and certainly not at the dose he was.

    Would the work of activists (like myself) ever have influenced his decision to take it? I don’t believe so. Would he have refused the drug if his doctor had shown him the results of a test showing his hugely elevated risk? Probably.

    My son was not genetically ‘defective’ in any way. He was, as we all are, a unique individual with a unique mix of genes. His biology meant that giving him 20-30mg of Fluoxetine was a death sentence. I wish this test had been available. I wish it had been so widely known and entrenched as the standard of care that I had insisted on it being performed. I wish his doctor’s professional indemnity insurer had insisted it be performed. I wish it had been as routine as checking if someone is allergic to an antibiotic before prescribing. I hope one day it will be.

    Its easy to take the stance that these drugs should never be prescribed and refuse to consider a harm minimisation approach, unless there is a risk of a child you love dying. In my view it will be a very, very long time before the average person on the street hears and heeds the messages of activists in this field. We can scream as loudly from the rooftops as we want but people will always be skeptical of our message. We are socialised to trust doctors however and if this test means doctors will tell patients about the risks then it has my support. Because in practical terms that if far more likely to make a difference.

    My son was given a pamphlet that said links between suicide and SSRIs were media hype. He believed his doctor and took the drug. Fifteen days later he hanged himself. Five years later, I would do anything to make sure other parents are better informed than I was. Anything that makes patients and their families ask the right questions and issue the right challenges is a step in the right direction. Anything that forces doctors to disclose the true risks of these drugs is a step in the right direction. I believe this test, if successful can contribute to that and that initiatives like this are an important part of ensuring that SSRIs join Heroin and Cocaine as drugs that were once widely prescribed but are now recognised as dangerous, toxic substances for which doctors have lost their prescribing rights.

    Like

  3. D,
    I would never think that. I enjoy your comments and hope that you would never change. I promise never to take offence and I totally understand where you’re coming from….It’s a tough one to call. I’ll look through all those links though.
    Leonie

    Maria
    Amen, Maria.
    I can understand the distrust and confusion with this though, I thought the same thing myself. Shane also had a ‘toxic to fatal’ level of Citalopram in his system, despite only having access to a relatively small supply over the 17 days. Yet they call these drugs safer….for who? The drug company’s ‘get-out’ clause.
    BTW, I did what you said and sent Lundbeck a request for that causality assessment. They have ignored me so far! They kill our kids and then ignore us when we make a fuss. What a terrible person I am, imagine making a big fuss because my son is dead?
    Leonie

    Like

    1. Demanding bitch! Took me two years of arguing that I should not have to go to the High Court to get a ruling that I am my minor child’s legal representative before Mylan handed the CIOMS report on Toran’s death to me. Fortunately, people like you and I don’t give up easily as they are learning 🙂

      Like

  4. D Bunker is right!
    We know that genetic is the new treatment and the pills era is about to end. Is Big Pharma searching for new drugs?

    Not desperately anymore because tests, diagnoses will be done by genetics
    This site is clearly the approach for indoctrination will take.

    This is outrageous.
    More crimes against humanity and iatrogenesis will continue to be the third cause of death in US.

    Tests for suicidality… this is a joke. The real suicide ideation is totally diferent from the drug-induced.

    How evil medicine is being practiced. As long as you keep profiting.
    Activists will have to start the crusade of awareness about genetic therapy, tests and all the paraphernalia.

    We have work for a lifetime. Unfortunately you have the money and the media.
    YOU WIN. KEEP KILLING!

    Like

    1. Ana!

      Here’s our fearless, Psychiatric Genetics in action:

      http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/citizen-warrior/2013/mar/8/feinstein-ptsd-veteran-assault-weapons-gun-ban/

      Senator Dirty Harriet Feinstein (D-Hypocrite) is working hard to turn America into a Police State. And remember that her husband, Richard Bloom, is the Head of the University of California Board of Regents. You remember UC don’t you?

      UCSF and its 1600 UC Faculty who staff the Only Psychiatric Emergency Service in Senator Dirty Harriet’s own hometown.

      http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2012/06/mental-health-in-san-francisco.html

      Military Vets who get labeled with PTSD lose their Constitutional Rights, but Police Officers who get labeled with PTSD don’t.

      The Genetics of Police Officers are Superior Genetics to those possessed by our Military. Acceptable Psychiatric Genes are those Genes owned by people who do certain Jobs for Government, and not Other jobs, even when they’re For the same Government.

      Candidates for employment by Police Departments in California must first undergo a Psychological profiling by a Licensed Professional to assure that they won’t crack under pressure.

      http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/14/how-christopher-dorner-went-down.html

      And ‘Licensed ‘Mental Health’ Pros screwed up Again with Ex-Cop Christopher Dorner.

      And while we’re at it, you may find some of the glaring contradictions in the Newtown CT School Massacre interesting, considering all the heat and disinformation about assault rifles it’s still generating, . . . especially since Adam Lanza did Not even use an Assault Rifle.

      http://nachumlist.com/Sandy%20Hook.htm

      Psychiatric Genetics, . . . Crooked, Political Bulls**t.

      Like

  5. I’m supposed to be the cynic here!
    I’m not sure that I understand this particular line..”Tests for suicidality… this is a joke. The real suicide ideation is totally different from the drug-induced.” Seriously? Is there any difference to a person who is suicidal from life events or drug-induced suicidality? What about a person who is suicidal from life events who goes to the doctor and is prescribed drugs which exacerbates the suicidal feelings and goes on to die by their own hand… Is that not real? Dead is dead, whatever way you look at it.
    To be honest, I’m not 100% sure about this genetic testing either, but I am 100% hoping that it will work; for the moment, that’s enough for me. If I thought or even sniffed that pharma was behind this, I’m out!
    Leonie

    Like

  6. 5. Problems with Seroxat and other SSRIs

    Prozac and Seroxat are the best-known examples of SSRI and related antidepressants, but others are widely used. The introduction of SSRIs led to a threefold increase in antidepressant prescriptions between 1990 and 2000. Prescriptions for antidepressants now match those of the benzodiazepine tranquillisers at their peak, 25 years ago.

    Almost from the outset, there was concern about two main problems with SSRIs. First, there was suspicion (initially centred on Prozac) that these drugs could induce suicidal and violent behaviour – infrequently, but independently of the suicidal thoughts that are linked to depression itself. There was also concern (centred on Seroxat) about a risk of dependence; some users. p.85

    The influence of pharmaceutical industry

    review done by the English Parliament
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmhealth/42/42.pdf
    I wrote about the first time I was quiting Effexor and among numerous withdrawal symptoms I had the urge to kill myself but you can take it as .an anecdotal evidence instead of the fourth phase of clinical trials that is not done because… “patients testimonies are not reliable and not considered as scientific evidence.

    At the UK parliament review you’ll find the explanations.
    I’ll say nothing more because you’ll NEVER, NEVER admit any harm.
    How can you sleep at night!

    I hope you are receiving a good amount of money. Helping killing people or destroying their lives should have a profit for the average person, not only those who are… blah blah blah

    Like

    1. My filing of an adverse reaction report following my son’s SSRI induced suicide has resulted in causality assessments both from the Regulator and Mylan Pharmaceuticals concluding that Prozac was the most likely cause of his suicide.

      The DNA test showing he is an intermediate metaboliser and blood tests showing the effect of the drug on his glucose levels, neutrophils etc helped with this. Being able to back my observations of his response to the drug with irrefutable evidence of its effect on him physically and to present a biologically plausible mechanism for the reaction was important to forcing them to admit their drug led to my child’s suicide.

      I’m sure I must be reading you wrong Ana but just so I’m clear, are you accusing Leonie of accepting money to promote Sundance an of killing people or destroying their lives?

      Like

      1. Maria; I’ve corresponded with Ana for some years now, and can vouch personally that she would never accuse Leoni of such a thing.

        Her intelligence and perceptual capabilities are of a very high order, but, English is not her first language and I’m sure that accounts for any misunderstanding regarding her shifting from viewpoint to viewpoint in her comments.

        Like

      2. No! I’ve been through so much under pychiatric drugs and felt almost all of the harms these drugs promote.

        I was prescribed Klonopin and was sent to therapy. Five years later I had my first withdrawal syndrome after being three days without Klonopin (clonazepam). that is known now to be the most difficult benzo to withdraw. Withdrawal symptoms are worse than heroine.

        I went to a psychiatrist so that he could help me withdraw of clonazepam.

        He started using diazepam, I have no idea why he decided to prescribe me the first antidepressant I ever took to help the cloazepam withdrawal. It was Tofranil.

        I had a huge reaction and felt terrible. I went to another psychiatrist that changed the Tofranil to Anafranil. No good. So psychiatrist and now things were so mixed that he started seeing mental diseases in side effects.

        I was prescribed almost all the drugs on the maket. I changed psychiatrists fpur time…

        Well… I started researching in English back in 2003. I found out what had happened to me.

        I don’t understand how can it be that someone can not be aware of the antidepressants risks with all the evidences available at the internet, the books written by serious psychiatrists, all the testimonies of patients and doctors.

        David Healy just wrote an article about it.

        No, I didn’t accuse him of that but whenever someone forgets to give the big picture the cause we are all fighting is affected.
        We have to be very cautious because we might affect someone’s choice as I did because of an information at Dr. Bob’s site.

        If I had the right information back in 2002 and hadn’t read this piece at Dr. Bob’s site I would never, never choose Effexor when the psychiatrists put at the table three antidepressants “Pamelor”, “Remeron” and “Effexor”… “-Choose one.”
        Can you believe that?

        Like

      3. This is the blog about psychiatry:
        justana-justana.blogspot.com

        I just got in touch with your work and you’re doing a great job.
        We are trying hard to alert therapists about drug-induced suicide ideation because one of the terrible things is that it is impossible to call for help even knowing that it is a withdrawal symptom.

        I’m not talking about it over other people’s testimonies.

        i did experienced not once or twice. I still have my moments if I forget a dose but now I know what to do.

        Last years I opened the gas and lied in my bed. The noise of the gas made me wake up.

        I bought those things we put in the ear. It is at the first drawing as a reminder that I DID CHOOSE LIFE. NO MATTER WHAT.

        Like

  7. Bunky,

    There’s a much bigger picture here.

    For years there have been many outspoken voices going up against pharmaceutical companies, psychiatry, doctors etc.

    Along comes a diagnostics company who have acknowledged that there is a suicide risk when taking these kind of medications and that they are running a series of tests to see if they can help reduce:

    1. The over prescribing of these drugs
    2. The suicides attributed to these drugs
    3. The lack of knowledge that Dr’s have about the frequency of suicide on these drugs.

    These three points alone should have been managed by the FDA – in fact, they were suppressed, buried. I’d say ignored but the FDA haven’t ignored the problem they’ve just chose to deny it and disseminate it.

    I’ve spoken with Sundance, they are an extension of both you and I. They want to reduce the over prescribing of these drugs at the same time as educating families and healthcare professionals.

    Clinical trials, as we both know, are deeply flawed. They are manipulated and then written up as being successful by a pharmaceutical hired hand [ghostwriter]

    The difference with Sundance is from day one they are seeking to help a group of people who are at a very high risk. They are not ignoring those at middle or low risk – In fact, even if a test comes back suggesting that a patient may not be at high risk Sundance will still push home the point to the prescribing doctor that there may be other factors as to why this patient should not be treated with SSRi’s or any other psychiatric medication.

    They are fully aware that using these meds can alter structures – for years we have been told that the illness alters the structure of our brain, Sundance actually know that it’s the medication.

    This is very much a work in progress and, as you know, I will always do my homework before publishing anything on my blog. Both Maria and I have spend many hours over the past 6 months talking to the CEO of Sundance – this is not something that has just materialised over the past few days.

    End of the day something needs to be put into place that can stop the over prescribing of these meds – our voices aren’t enough.

    If the tests can be proven then Sundance can add to our voices. What we have been saying for years will have weight, scientific weight.

    If it goes tits-up then, hey, at the very least we can say we tried.

    Like

    1. Dear Dr. Joseph,

      I am Kim Bechthold, CEO of Sundance Diagnostics. We very much appreciate the wealth of information in your writing and the links you have provided to other’s writing and research. We have previously read some of the work, in particular Professor Stephen Ferrone’s publication, but there are pieces we have not seen before. We knew Dr. Ferrone a number of year’s back. We will do our best to more fully study each reference, and your articles in particular, but it will take a good bit of time. Nonetheless, we would like to make just a few comments at this time, even though we have not been able to fully read the work you have presented.

      As genetic associations with neuropsychiatric disorders were announced over the last decade since the human genome project was completed, principles in our company followed them with high hope of replications of the original studies. All, to date, have used genome wide association scanning (GWAS).

      As you stated to Leonie, none have replicated. All are looking for common, known markers, sometimes in candidate genes. Why the difficulty, besides the fact that we have been exchanging these genes for centuries and the complexities of them are towering?

      One reason that we know of, and there may be many, many more, is that GWAS technology can only look at up to 10 million genetic markers, and they are all known genetic markers. There are 3 billion base pairs (6 billion nucleotides) in the human genome. If we are going to discover if there is a way to predict who will have a high risk of medication induced suicide, we would want to look at them all. Then, attempt to replicate our findings.

      Of course, to do that four years ago would have cost, according to Gnome, a company providing the service, $400,000 per person. Now, we can sequence all 3 billion base pairs in a patient in a matter of hours and at a cost of under $10,000 per patient with whole genome sequencing. Four companies have developed the technology. Three in the U.S. and one in China. It is phenomenal technology — and it gives us a chance, a much better chance than before, to find if there are predictive markers for high risk of drug-induced suicide and acts of violence. And for the first time in medical science, we we be able to see all of the uncommon genetic markers–considered by some scientists to be the heart of the genetics of neuropsychiatric disorders. There are still hurdles, one is the analysis of terrabytes of genomic data – a challenge of a high order.

      We have chosen one the leading companies in the field to do our sequencing and the computational analysis is slated to be done by young scientist with an impressive reputation and several papers published now on his work.

      One other thing, we have chosen the very narrow indication– adverse drug response. Not diagnosis of the disorders, not treatment of the disorders. And there is actually one replication that has been reported in the genetic markers of drug response. Professor Elizabeth Binder at the Max Planck Instititute and Emory University, confirmed one of the genes identified by the authors of the NIMH STAR*D study. It was a different snp but in the same gene. And that is important.

      So the world of genetic research has changed, dramatically, with the introduction of fast and affordable whole genome sequencing. We are privileged to be able to employ this technology in searching for something so needed and important as trying to curb the high incidence of drug-induced suicides and acts of violence.

      Finally, the markers, if found, are not markers of genetic deficiiency or a abberation from the normal.

      After all, there is the dopamine transporter gene, the DRD4, purported to be for the ADD person with the talent for exploration and entrepreneurship, that mutated into existence just before mankind began its migration out of Africa. And there is a report now that lactose intolerance was the norm for mankind and that the ability to tolerate dairy products was a mutation– the aberation. The time the mutation occured has also been reported. Is the ability to not have a high risk response to antidepressant drugs a mutation that occured somewhere in our ancestry?

      Again, we appreciate all that you have written, and will study it at more length. We intend to keep exploring and learning as much as we can from people like yourself. In that way, if we are fortunate to find that genetics can protect the patient who will be at risk if he takes an antidepressant drug, we will be able to bring a test to the clinic in a way that has the least chance of being misunderstood, or mis-used, and has the best chance of resulting in the most good.

      Our children have been the “canaries in the mine,” perhaps. Lets see if we can get them out of the mine and safely at home. It is worth a try.

      Best regards,
      Kim Bechthold

      Like

      1. ” It is phenomenal technology — and it gives us a chance, a much better chance than before, to find if there are predictive markers for high risk of drug-induced suicide and acts of violence. And for the first time in medical science, we we be able to see all of the uncommon genetic markers–considered by some scientists to be the heart of the genetics of neuropsychiatric disorders.”

        considered by the scientists that are not payed to have X, Y and Z results as a total disaster.

        It is funny the way science is being done.
        If the scientist wants to search for evidences for the Big Bang Theory he will receive money.

        However those who want to research to proove that the universe is eternal don’t.

        Peer-review= Big Bang hypotheses becomes theory
        eternal universe? NO WAY!!!!!
        lol.

        Like

      2. Kim;

        1: If you’re addressing Dr. Jay Joseph, he’s not here. I am Not Dr. Joseph, in case that got stuck in Your universal – thinking in Genetics and Other People’s Money while typing in English – translator, the way Ana’s thinking in Portuguese while typing in English sometimes induces an unintended misapprehension in native English thinkers.

        I have merely Cited Dr. Joseph’s work, not created it. You’d have a better chance of contacting Dr. Joseph here:

        http://www.madinamerica.com/author/jjoseph/

        IF Sundance believes they’re going to discover anything of benefit to potential consumers of not only antidepressants but Any pharmaceuticals, it only clinches the argument of industry having turned America’s Education system into another unit of its illegal marketing activities.

        You and Sundance may very well believe in the righteousness of your stated aims. That makes you all the more dangerous.

        Suppose Sundance Does come up with something. Nobody is going to start making safer drugs that work Around those pre-suicide risk genes. (With all the public monies Pharma and Pharma U. have already stolen and wasted on the current crop which was Supposed to be Safe Enough to begin with?)

        Your research is an Orwellian Government’s dream. If not Sundance, then somebody else will begin by trying to modify People instead. Women will be delivering genetically modified, Government approved babies. We’ve already got Franken-foods, next it’ll be Franken-infants. And we’ll see another Congress revise US Patent and Anti Trust Laws to put 100 year exclusivity of brand name pricing back into the hands of the companies who originally developed the drugs which we already know, are good for S**t.

        Consider the following hypothetical:

        If Anyone wrote you an e-mail offering you payment to kill another person, that Anyone could go to Prison just for making you the Offer of payment to do the deed. That is Exactly, by Law, what Psychiatrists are doing with their Drugs, whether or not anyone Else actually GETS murdered is, as a Matter of Law, irrelevant. And Every last, single one of these Psychiatric Hoodlums know full well that that is Exactly what they are doing. That is irrefutable, slam dunk, Criminal Intent.

        Teen Screen just Finally Died and it wasn’t a week before Comrade Chairman Barackovich’s henchmen put the horror back up on its feet again under another name at the behest of the chemicals who own him.

        I have Never gone into a voting booth and checked off any Pharma Boards of Directors or CEOs to repeal the US Constitution so that Bill Weldon, who is more responsible for TMAP than most, could trade his CEO cap for a Chairman of the Board cap and pocket $197 Million Dollars (most of which came to him through Govt. confiscation and redistribution) for waddling across the hall, rather than getting tossed into prison for at least a Thousand consecutive life sentences.

        The line dividing Private Industry from Government has been all but erased, and it needs to be redrawn in the blackest and most unmistakable terms. Pharma is NOT my Government and I want them kicked COMPLETELY Out of my Government.

        As for Sundance and Your good intentions, the Road to Hell is Still paved with Good Intentions.

        I do Not want Government deciding which children, in the womb, are to have which genes Deleted, and I most emphatically do Not want You or Anyone else glooming onto a single Government Dime to Assist Government in that Humanist pursuit.

        http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2013/03/psychiatric-genetics-future-delete.html

        Neither am I in the least interested in receiving any denigrating equivocations from You explaining to me that That is the way Scientific Research works: in order to Find the suspect genes the 1st step is to see what happens Without the suspect genes.

        I’ve already been condescended to by two of the most well respected Internet publishing Psychiatric Uber-Geniuses in America, and their concept of, and respect for, the Law is an absolutely horrifying exposition of their, and by extension Medicine’s, Big Brother obsessions:

        http://1boringoldman.com/index.php/2012/12/18/speaking-of-infringement/

        A former FDA Psychopharmacological panel member elucidated his position that the “Right To Life” found in the 1st Amendment to the Declaration of
        Independence took precedence over the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.

        And then the site Owner, a retired Psychiatrist, shut off the comments after the 1st Psychiatrist told me that I was Over the Top Today.

        God Alone knows exactly What those two were actually on about Beyond being and Remaining the Big Fish in Everybody else’s Thought Pond.

        The Nazi Holocaust WAS that 1st Genetic Deletion step, and Genetic Investigations are Still replicating that 1st Step, albeit on a much less open and direct, smaller scale in lab mice. The principle and flawed mindset remain. Get Rid of it and see what happens next.

        Especially in the field of Government Owned Mind and Mood Control.

        Regards;

        D Bunker

        Like

      3. How little faith you have in your fellow human beings. No, nobody is going to make safer drugs but informed populations can, and I believe will, choose not to use the dangerous ones they continue to manufacture. And because Pharma are motivated purely by money, when the market shrinks and threatens to disappear they will stop supplying it.

        Maybe we have a different perspective on the power of the people because I live in NZ. A country which decided to forgo the lucrative American market (and raise its considerable ire) in favour of declaring itself nuclear free and refusing to allow entry of American ships. A country who told America the war in Iraq was unethical and refused to send soldiers. A country that was punished economically for taking a stand for the health and well-being of its citizens because those citizens made votes dependent on these stances being taken.

        While the road to hell may be paved with good intentions, in my view the expressway to the same destination is paved with fatalism and I could equally label your pronouncements that we are all doomed to become nothing but puppets of the state and need to shed our “flawed mindset” as denigrating and condescending.

        You will no doubt call me naiive but I believe that we have two weapons far more powerful than the money and status of the pharmaceutical industry and government. They are the love we have for our children and the truth. History tells me that these are weapons that can overturn industry and governments.

        Clearly you see a war between good and evil. Are you willing to accept the painful, lonely, violent deaths of thousands of children prescribed SSRIs as collateral damage in this war? Personally, I’m not an ‘ends justifies the means’ girl. Each individual child may be just one child to the world but is the world to his or her parents. I don’t believe we are modelling what we are trying to achieve if we are willing to turn our backs on saving individuals in the process of saving the world.

        Like

    2. – our voices aren’t enough
      Please Bob!
      I don’t wanna listen it from you. You’re always an inspiration. Every post you publish makes me remember that the flame is alive.

      D Bunker is a huge influence and inspiration for me.
      Love you all. You made me feel understood and I have nobody to talk about these problems.

      I just wrote something I never told anybody and never wrote anywhere,
      I rather not talk about my personal experience but if it helps raising awareness I write.

      Like

      1. “The Science of Human Perfection: How Genes Became the Heart of American Medicine” by Nathaniel Comfort

        One of the great books about genetics or “eugenetics” medicine…
        We don’t have pure race any longer.
        The last human pure race were Somalians but US destroyed the country and the people.

        Human species is in danger and one of the problems is: genetic medicines.

        “Thus, unlike the hot house flowers we here in the U.S have become, riddled with various genetic imperfections, such as diabetes, insulin resistance and over weight, heart disease, stress, etc, the Somali represent a pure tough genetic line. That has incredible value to the future of the human race.”
        Dr Edo McGowan PhD, Medical Geo-hydrology
        http://hellaheaven-ana.blogspot.com/2011/09/famine-in-somalia-how-us-destroyed.html

        Like

  8. “How little faith you have in your fellow human beings”

    Maria,

    D . Bunker’s work shows how faithful he is in human being for it would make no sense to try to raise awareness of people ones despises.

    It seems to me you’re not aware of what is happening in America. You decided to lecture us on US foreign policy that has been the same for more than a century for what reason?

    I’m Brazilian and I have to explain to some Americans what is happening in US.

    ‘sed to send soldiers. A country that was punished economically for taking a stand for the health and well-being of its citizens because those citizens made votes dependent on these stances being taken.”

    You offend Americans and those who like and understand Americans.

    I don’t see any reason to talk to someone whose arguments are so full of errors and don’t touch the core of the problems.

    This discussion is adrift.

    You assume everybody is this or that. You are the one who should have faith in human beings.
    You attacked two persons in this thread alone.
    Adieux.
    Have a nice life.

    Like

  9. D. Bunker,

    The biological model is quite appealing.
    I remembered I did a post about PGx in 2009. It is not a surprise but it’s always surprising how even those who are fighting the same war fall in the trap.

    “Prevailing notions about PGx are often based on misconceptions. But in reality, the technology plays a vital role in Pharma’s business today..”
    Stan Bernard, MD

    “These groups point out that no one has shown that using PGx test results actually brings about the predicted improvement in safety or response. Third-party payers are in this camp. But a recent American College of Medical Genetics report also takes this position (see “Statistical associations don’t prove clinical utility”). To make matters more thorny, the public health implications are huge: Perhaps 1 million people initiate warfarin each year, and the consequences of misdosing can be severe.

    Speaking of PGx testing in general, Barbara A. Zehnbauer, PhD, FACMG, says: “There are very few studies that stratify patients based on genotype, then verify whether they improved outcome or response based on those genotypes, which is how you want to use these tests clinically. Mostly there are retrospective studies classifying outcome or risk of adverse events stratified by genotype.” Evidence for the value of PGx will not be complete until those prospective outcomes studies are done, says Dr. Zehnbauer, director of the molecular diagnostic laboratory and professor of pathology and immunology, Washington University School of Medicine. Even so, Dr. Zehnbauer says her laboratory has just started offering PGx testing for warfarin. “Partly it is a service,” she explains. “One of our missions is supporting physicians in what they need to care for their patients. If we don’t offer it, other labs will.”
    by William Check (great article
    http://www.cap.org/apps/cap.portal?_nfpb=true&cntvwrPtlt_actionOverride=%2Fportlets%2FcontentViewer%2Fshow&_windowLabel=cntvwrPtlt&cntvwrPtlt%7BactionForm.contentReference%7D=cap_today%2Fcover_stories%2F0308_TooFastOrSlow.html&_state=maximized&_pageLabel=cntvwr

    I’ll not be back. I’ll be out of town,

    Like

  10. OMG!
    I did read Maria’s comment to D Bunker now. I just took a glimpse and now I did read the entire thing,,

    I’m happy I didn’t read it all when I answered, Amazing!

    Stop winning and being pessimist D Bunker. lol

    All we need is love! Sure love is the answer but if one takes a quick look at history and read some philosophers, let’s take Foucault with the biopower concept, it is clear that

    WE HAVE TO KEEP ON FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM!

    What happened when people lost their voices for two decades? The nineties and the firstt decade of this century…

    We are suffering the consequences.

    Like

      1. Ana,
        Clinical utility studies were done for the genetic test for treatment with Warfarin (about 60,000 patients as I recall) and the test now has FDA approval. Time marches on. Over 100 drugs are listed on the FDA website for which a genetic test is available for the doctor to use in prescribing.
        All due respect, your information from 2009 is out of date and incorrect. And we are not speaking about a test for suicidality. The test we hope to produce is a test for risk of medication-induced suicidality.
        I am determined to be polite. However, you are insensitively addressing a woman who has lost her child and you have told her to “have a good life.” I take serious offense at your statement. An apology is in order. And it really should be a very good one. Step up to the plate, Ana, you are in America, my country, and maybe yours, and we don’t speak this way to our neighbors.

        Like

      2. Maria;

        This reply needs context.

        “Since 1998, New Zealand’s postal market has been open to private competition, with the result that postage rates have fallen and labor productivity at New Zealand Post has risen.”

        Congratulations: New Zealand got it Right! My country Also needs to get it right by doing Exactly what Your Country did with the mails, in almost every sector of American life My Government is sticking its nose into.

        Please watch this youtube clip: (it’s only 2:48 long)

        Representative Hank Johnson(D-Idiot) tells US Navy he’s concerned the Island of Guam might tip over and capsize

        Rep Johnson and his fellows are the people who write the Bills which put the money into the machine which murdered your son and Leoni’s son. Does That help you understand my opposition to Govt. Funding anything at all to do with these drugs?

        Hank Johnson and Co, no matter What Sundance comes up with, or doesn’t, Are going to co-opt Sundance’s output and Use it to sell More Drugs.

        I am NOT indifferent to the Violence perpetrated against you, Leoni and your families, and so many, many others by mental health drugs. I want it Stopped, Period. If you and I differ, I prefer to think that our differences extend only to our desired methodologies and not our desired ends.

        “How little faith you have in your fellow human beings.”

        I have infinite faith in my fellow human beings who Invented America, but today’s American mobocracy wherein 1 in 6 Americans (1 in 4 children) are literally Eating out of the remaining 5 Americans (Food Stamps) pockets is nothing to let go as an issue of ‘Faith’.

        Allowing America to vote itself whatever it has been misinformed into thinking it wants on issue after issue, voter by voter, is how America got into its current mess to begin with.

        Nowhere in the Supreme Law of my country is there a single bleeping Word, Thought, or Psychiatric Ideation providing for people to be poisoned into being made Happy at everyone else’s expense.

        “I suspect the dead find freedom over rated …”

        We would have one hell of a lot Fewer dead if we actually Had, or even Believed in, Freedom.

        Democracy in and of itself, is not Freedom.

        http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/Freedom%20Advocates

        Like

      3. My organisation CASPER does not accept government funding. Never has, never will. I sold my home to fund it rather than accept a penny from government. My understanding is that Sundance are not seeking or receiving any government funding either. I’m not sure why this has come up because clearly its a point of total agreement.

        Similarly, I consider democracy to be the tyranny of the majority which is why our system of government in NZ, which gives minor parties significant power to further the aims of those who vote for them, has my support.

        You talk about ill-informed voters and again I concur the public have been the victims of a deliberate campaign of disinformation in relation to mental illness and psychiatric drugs and suicide along with a host of other issues. Which is why I think the Sundance test is important. People believe in science and in capitalism, they are suspicious of activism. They will believe that these drugs cause suicide when the scientific evidence is turned into a commercially viable product that people they trust (doctors) endorse.

        The SSRI / suicide link will become fact rather than a conspiracy theory promoted by hysterical grieving mothers, scientologists, individuals who have had rare idiosyncratic responses and disaffected attention-seeking professionals. They should believe us. It should not require more clinical trials. But they don’t so we need to explore different approaches being mindful always of managing the risks and maximising the benefits.

        It seems to me we agree on more than we disagree on but I find it refreshing that we do disagree on some things. One of the problems I have with working in this field is that so often we all agree with each other all the time, we preach to the converted, we form a mutual admiration society. Friction, conflict and rigorous debate is what will challenge us to move forward and make progress.

        So I’m not going to suggest we focus on our similarities rather than differences but I am going to suggest that in the spirit of suicide prevention, we attack issues vigorously but deal respectfully with individuals. I’ve reviewed enough suicide cases to know that personal attacks from peers are a key trigger for suicide and I don’t think we should demonstrate the careless disregard for the emotional safety of others that big pharma excel at.

        Like

  11. Kim,

    Did you read what happened to me? Should that make me intouchable and people should address to me very kindly because of that?

    I respest those who respect themselves. Please do read what I wrote about me view on US and Americans.

    Me and D Bunker are those who need apologies.

    “Ana, you are in America, my country, and maybe yours, and we don’t speak this way to our neighbors.”

    I can give you some examples of how Americans treat their neighbors from time to time.
    This statement is from someone who is thinks that… xenophobia….
    are proud of being mixed so things I have Indian, Italian and Portuguese blood in my veins. It made me stronger.

    FDA approval? Great! 100% safe!

    Evergreening is a also a practice FDA does to make drugs safer.
    You’re blessed for having FDA as UL is for MHRA.

    Now it’s me who will get a life.
    Bye

    Like

    1. Ana:

      “Kim,
      Did you read what happened to me? ”

      Ana, don’t let her bait you. Read her comment to me.
      “Dear Dr. Joseph,”

      “As you stated to Leonie, ”

      She doesn’t Care enough about Anything beyond her research fiefdom and Other People’s Money to even figure out Who she’s Talking to.

      She’s slapping you with Exactly the same condescension I was blown off with at 1Boring Old Man.

      Shut off the comments, after getting haughty about their own elevated liberality:

      A “Right to Life” from the 1st Amendment to the Declaration of Independence.
Those 2, . . . ahhhm, . . . ‘Investigators’, . . . were advancing a Gun Banning agenda under the repeatedly disproven and near universally disseminated LIE that it would reduce gun violence.
      If that were true, Why is the city of Chicago a 24/7 Shooting Gallery? Chicago has more anti-gun laws than almost any city in America, and the more of them they pass, the more gun murders they have, just like DC.

      The Licensed Mental Illness Pros at 1Boringoldman put the Declaration of Independence over the Constitution as a solution to gun violence.

      Hello! Fact Check Time. The Declaration of Independence was an open invitation to all out War which put everyone into the fields and streets shooting at each other, unlike the Constitution which put everyone back into their homes, Not shooting but prepared to if need arose again.

      And those 2 Psychiatrists are the Uber-Geniuses deciding that everybody Else is Incurably Insane.

      Back to Kim:

      “you are in America, my country, and maybe yours ,[Again, couldn’t be bothered to find out you’re in Brazil] and we don’t speak this way to our neighbors.”

      Well, . . . it’s Damn Well Past Time that we DID start speaking this way to our neighbors.

      Kim, You are not only in MY Country, you are Feeding on MY Jugular Vein to pay Your mortgage.

      And you are Now offering Ana the unbridled Brass to impose a PC Civility Meter upon Her speech?

      But, as I noted at 1Boringoldman, the 1st Amendment, which says Nothing about “So Long as you keep it Civil and Inoffensively OFF of MY agenda” presents a rather Sticky Legal Wicket for the Mental/Political Health crowd.

      “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

      Are we all Clear here?

      Nobody but Nobody owns any Right to be protected from being Offended by anybody Else’s speech in America.

      Like

  12. What is astonishing is that the real issues raised were forgotten.

    But this is the tradition when those who defend the Big Pharma: “you’re ignoorant; you’re scientologist and so on…” Nothing new. LOL

    Like

  13. This effort of Sundance Diagnostics is about finding a way to identify which individuals are at increased risk of becoming suicidal from psychiatric drugs WHY is the focus solely on antidepressants? All due respect to both Leonie and Maria, SSRIs are NOT the only drugs disabling and killing children due to causing akasthisia and increased risk of suicide and homicide. While it is totally understandable that both of you focus on the class of drugs which took your beautiful sons, the issue is not just about SSRIs— I urge you to widen your perspectives to the losses other parents experience losing a child due to the fact they had a different diagnosis and were prescribed a different class of drug I am certain is just as devastating when the cause is not an SSRI. The other thing I would encourage is learning more about the psychiatric survivor movement, it is a Human Rights movement that’s been in existence longer than I’ve been alive, it is not funded by government, pharma, the Church of Scientology or CCHR.

    Like

    1. Becky,
      We at Sundance couldn’t agree with you more. The reason to start the project with SSRI’s is a scientific one. It is imperative that the first whole genome sequencing study for heightened drug risk is successful. If the science is questionable, studies for genetic prediction of drug risk with other drugs will be hampered. The critical need in this type of study is to find exceptionally well diagnosed patients with extensive and complete medical records. With such, we can defend the results of our research. Well diagnosed patients with complete medical records are much easier to obtain for suicidal ideation than for any other drug side effect at the moment. That is why we are starting with the risk of suicidal ideation. We have the DNA prepared and ready to sequence for the first SSRI we will study. The cost of the study and the confirmatory trial will be anywhere from $12 to 20 Million. With success we will move to the next drug. Predictive genetic markers may be consistent througout all drugs in the SSRI class. If we find that to be true, our research with SSRI’s may go much more quickly and we can move on then to other drugs. Thank you for your comment. We will look for imformation on the psychiatric survivor movement. Thank you for that as well.

      Like

    2. Becky CASPER includes families who have lost loved ones to Isotretinoin, a range of Antipsychotics, the antibiotic Doxycycline, Varenicline and other drugs. It also includes families whose loved ones have suicided with no drug or mental health system involvement. As Kim has pointed out, there are scientific reasons SSRIs are the first class of drugs being investigated. This has nothing to do with Leonie and I whio have not been involved in developing this project in any way. Perhaps those involved in the psychiatric surviivors movement could learn more about the psychiatric non-survivors movement and about the work of those bereaved by suicide more broadly.

      Like

    3. Becky, Ana,

      The focus is on SSRi’s at present, you have to start somewhere.

      If the test, because remember the Sundance test is still at the trial stage, is successful then no doubt other drugs will come into the picture.

      If you look at the interview I did with Sundance you will see that they pretty much claim that all psychiatric drugs are dangerous and it’s that information that they will be relaying to prescribing physicians regardless of whether or not a person has a high or low suicide risk.

      The debate on both here and the Mad in America website has shocked me.

      I knew there would be opposition but I didn’t think for one minute that people in favour of trying to save lives would be attacked on a personal level.

      I want to paint a picture for those of you that haven’t lost a child, I’m included in that list.

      Imagine you wake up one morning, it’s a Sunday, breakfast is on the go, the kitchen smells of fresh coffee. Life is sweet… really sweet.

      There’s a knock at the door, it’s the police.

      They tell you that your child has been found dead, he/she has stabbed himself to death.

      Your world would come tumbling down, right?

      If that picture fails to move you perhaps the following picture will explain why a pre-suicide screen is needed.

      You are at work, your child calls you. He/she is having a bad day. You decide to go home because you feel your child needs your support.

      On arriving home you see a shadow. “What’s that shadow in the middle of my garage door?”, you ask yourself.

      On closer inspection you see it’s your child hanging from a noose.

      Your world would come tumbling down, right?

      Or…

      You decide to do some DIY around the place. You have waited long enough for your home to be re-wired. You start tugging away at bits of ceiling, you rip out the old wires and leave them on the table downstairs.

      You work the whole weekend, re-wiring, re-plastering.

      On completion you spend a relaxing evening with your friends.

      Upon your return home you notice the basement door is open, you also notice wiring missing from the table.

      You walk down the basement steps and see your child hanging from the very same wire you placed on the table a day earlier.

      How do I know this?

      Well, I’ve met all of their parents. Not just wrote about them but physically met them.

      “The police knocking on the door” was something Leonie told me when I spent a long weekend with her and her family. Shane, their child, was just 22

      “I drove up the driveway and saw my baby hanging from a noose” is something I hear on a daily basis from my partner, Maria, whom I live with. Toran was just 17

      “This is where we found her, Bob” – something Neil Carlin told me when I went to visit him in Canada. Neil was pointing to the basement where he found his daughter Sara. She was just 18.

      Three young lives taken.

      Three young lives prescribed medication.

      Now, let’s just assume that the Sundance diagnostics test works.

      Let’s just assume that Shane, Toran and Sara had the opportunity to take such a test.

      Good thing or bad thing?

      I’ve said in the past that I wish I had never met Leonie, Neil and Maria. The only reason I have them in my life is because they have lost someone in theirs.

      This test, if successful, may just stop that knock at the door by the policeman, may stop the horrific experience of finding a dead child hanging from the garage or basement rafters.

      To be quite honest, some of the comments I have read have been without empathy – strangely they have all come from adults who have not experienced first hand the suicide of a loved one.

      We don’t have to agree but when disagreeing there is absolutely no need to pass off personal suicide as just an incident that happened.

      No parent should have to bury their child. No parent!

      If there’s a possibility that a prevention can be put in place then, at the very least, it should be given a chance.

      Sundance may just be the preventative measure Shane, Toran and Sara all deserved.

      Like

  14. Maria all due respect, your response to my unsolicited and obviously unwelcome suggestion is an insult. It is insulting because it was me personally making a suggestion to you and Leonie. The reason I made the suggestion was I thought it may be helpful to learn about how others have had success doing the same sort of work you are doing…silly me! I foolishly thought that people who have decades of experience doing similar work as you are now doing, may be helpful to your efforts. I perceive your response to be an insult because you are aware that while I personally am not an SSRI victim, nor am I a parent bereaved by suicide, I have gone out of my way to learn more about you, and other advocates who have lost their children to suicide. I have went out of my way to share your’s and Leonie’s stories BECAUSE your stories are important. I am willing to hear whatever you wish to share about the “psychiatric non-survivors movement,” Maria. however, I don’t foresee my promoting Sundance; but I respect your decision to do so. As for my making a suggestion in an attempt to relate, and make an honest attempt to be helpful–I won’t be making that mistake again—really, wtf was I thinking?!

    Like

    1. Thing is Becky, you assume Leonie and I haven’t extensively researched the psychiatric survivor movement. As you know, my partner is a psychiatric survivor. So are many of my friends. I work regularly with psychiatric survivor groups and read everything that comes my way. I regularly share information sent to me by members of the movement, including the information you post. I was also sectioned twice after Toran’s death so have personal experience of being forcibly restrained, involuntarily detained and medicated. Unsolicited advice based on incorrect assumptions is perhaps not the best basis for attempting to relate to others.

      Like

  15. Thanks for all the comments, I didn’t think this ‘Sundance’ post would get such a strong reaction. As I said before, I’m not 100% sure about this myself but still 100% hoping that it will work and that’s enough for me, for the moment. I have not seen any evidence whatsoever that would make me think that this is pharma related and already knew and queried Peter Tolias’s work with J&J. Peter worked for J & J in their diagnostics division and was there for three years. As for the comments themselves, you can rest assured that, unless subjectively offensive, I would never shut off the comment section. Really, I see nobody here being intentionally or overly offensive. Strong opinions alright, but I don’t think any of us are overly sensitive. In fact, speaking from experience, I think that in order for any of us to get this far, we must have skins like a rhinoceros. I know that has been my experience anyway. Coming up directly against academic ‘experts’ and people who think that we are just trying to find excuses for our children’s actions has left my sensitivities (and I suspect my friend Maria’s) far behind. I’m past caring what people think of me and just have to do what I think is right.

    Becky, I think we have had this conversation before. I do concentrate mostly on SSRIs because of Shane’s experience with Celexa. I know you have an issue with the equally dangerous Benzos and other toxic drugs. I wish I had the knowledge, brain and memory that you have, but I don’t. It took me months to learn the different drug names and I found it really frustrating dealing with and trying to remember the different names of Citalopram/Cipramil/Celexa/Escitalopram/Lexapro/Cipralex; and that’s just Lundbeck’s dubious offerings. I do try to publish any work relating to other dangerous drugs that I have heard of, especially when prescribed to children and I would never ever think that what your family went through is a lesser form of tragedy than mine. I have met with lovely people from the ‘psychiatric survivor movement’ who have been badly and irreversibly damaged by psychiatry. I have also met amazing psychiatrists who have helped me so much like Dr Michael Corry and David Healy, so therefore I can empathise and respect them both equally and simultaneously, just as I respect you all for speaking out here.
    Leonie

    Like

  16. What strikes me is that the lessons were not learned.
    Many ethical physicians and researchers are fighting the “genetic euphoria” some people are promoting.
    According to the new genetic-panacea whores we are all saved not only because the numerous incredible treatments already available and about to appear but also because of the tests.

    I found this article at… OMY! CNN:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/27/health/brca-genetic-testing-ep

    Excerpt:

    “Doctors and genetic counselors interviewed by CNN say that Myriad Genetics in Utah is doing something very similar with tests that determine if a woman has a potentially dangerous genetic abnormality linked to breast cancers.

    Most breast cancers do not seem to be genetic. Instead, they’re the result of cells gone wild for no apparent reason. However, some women get breast cancer because a bad gene runs in their families. When testing shows that a woman carries such a gene, she has a much higher chance of getting breast cancer. These women usually then get more frequent MRIs, ultrasounds and mammograms to detect a cancer, and sometimes even choose to remove their breasts to prevent a cancer from growing in the first place.

    Myriad owns the patent on breast cancer genes and so is the only company that can test for them. It offers one test that catches most, but not all, abnormalities, and then charges nearly all patients $700 for a second test that catches the rest.
    If a woman can’t afford the $700 fee, she may miss an abnormality, which could mean the difference between life and death.

    “What Myriad’s doing — charging extra for this test — is really sleazy,” Matloff says. “They’re collecting blood money off my patients.”
    Myriad defends the $700 charge for its second test, called BART, even though many patients can’t afford it and insurance won’t pay for it..”

    The “A pill for every ill” is over,
    They are not even searching for new drugs the way they did,

    Cant you see that the genetics is the new industry?
    I really do not understand how those who learned a lot from the evils these people can do for money DON’T SEE that those who are in charge of the genetic treatments, screening… all the panacea ARE THE SAME!

    Do a little research!

    Et tu Bob?

    Like

    1. What about the other side effects? Will they also have a test?
      Funny because suicide is under “Violent behavior” that can turn against others or self.

      Will they test for genetic testing for: drug-induced homicides; birth defects – the mom would test if the child has a genetic possibility of having any problems; addiction – the body cannot reuptake serotonin in the presynaptic gap without the antidepressant; sexual problems that can persist after quitting the drug – PSST;… you all know the list of side effects.

      ANd what about the withdrawal? A test to check if the genes of the person will make it harder to withdraw?
      It seems that most people cannot stop antidepressants SSRIs like they aspirin.

      ANtidepressants SSRIs don’t help even those who are clinically depressed.

      Did we forgot that? That the chemical imbalance theory is not valid?

      Usually those who are clinically depressed starts with one antidepressant that works for a while and stop helping. It is changed for another antidepressant, and another and another and… ad infinitum.

      Some patients end up with . electrodes attached at their heads to the ECT.

      What about 5, 6 7, 8 years of treatment and nothing helps?

      The real issue is: for how long will antidepressants be at the market?

      Antidepressants: “more lives taken than saved” claims Dr. David Healy

      “Isoniazid, reserpine, imipramine, atropine, stimulants, benzodiazepines, antipsychotics, fluoxetine*, ketamine – all have antidepressant credentials. The word coined by Max Lurie has lost meaning; it’s a basket for acronyms. Psychiatry was the first branch of medicine to have specialist hospitals and journals, the first to adopt controlled trials, rating scales, and guidelines. The antidepressants beckoned us toward clinical neuroscience but have led to myth, hidden data, ghostwriting, more lives taken than saved, womb to tomb consumption, and an increased incidence of “depression” from 1 per 1,000 to 1 in 5 of us.
      Knowing when not to prescribe is the greatest art in medicine.”

      “womb to tomb consumption”

      http://hellaheaven-ana.blogspot.com.br/2012/12/antidepressants-more-lives-taken-than.html

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s